The Dark Knight Rises

[fortunesfool]

Originally Posted by morris

It is undeniably serious and dark, but I'd argue there isn't as much superhero stuff in TDKR. You see Wayne brought down to his most basic...in prison, without gimmicks, barely able to move for the pain.

Another massive fail. The film dies on its arse during those bits. Bruce Wayne just isn't interesting. It's a movie about a guy dressed as a bat, punching people, and it's at its best when that is happening. It reminds me a bit of The Matrix debate of yore. People keep defending The Matrix because of the philosophical angle but they only watch it for the people getting kicked in the head in slo-mo, and the techno scored shoot-outs. No one skips those bits to get back to the woeful dialogue scenes. The Dark Knight films are the same. They are held up as deep and profound, but all we really want is to see Batman punch people, or race about on his bike with the wheels that do something that no one has been able to explain to me yet.
I know we're debating chalk and cheese () but I went to see Avengers in the hope that it would be full of snappy Whedon dialogue and scenes of super-heroes doing their superhero thing. It delivered, without any pretense to being anything other than that, and i'll watch it over and over again for that reason. I have no desire to ever watch The Dark Knight Rises again.

[morris]

I can see we're gonna have to agree to disagree here. You've got your mind made up about TDKR and I've got my mind made up about AA.
You'd never watch DKR again - I wouldn't dream of watching Avengers again. Scratch that, I did receive it on blu-ray from Loveshite and found myself fwding through most of it. You know what? Without the impact of the big screen, it wasn't all that.

Who are these people holding the Nolan trilogy up as deep and profound? Critics? Fans? I'm not one of them. I just enjoy it for a bit of well-directed beautifully shot escapism.

You say the film died on its arse in those bits, yet for me those were the parts that gave the Wayne character some depth and vulnerability that he was lacking in the previous films. In BB he was a mopey twat. In TDK he was a show-off then mopey again.
You say all anyone wants to see is a guy in a Bat suit punching people. I thought there was plenty of punching in TDKR and it was better, more realistic fighting than some of the wank that's gone before; so fast you couldn't even see what the fuck was happening.

But had it been all about the punching, with no attempts at character development and personal struggle, then no doubt you'd moan about that. You've just got a thing about it, Fool and I know enough to recall the boring Matrix Vs Aliens arguments that it's not worth spending any more time on this debate because you'll go on and on until we're both old and grey and can't see our keyboards without giant bifocals.

[morris]

I know a film had failed for me when I walk out and the conversation with my friend is just a list of questions:

How does Bruce Wayne get back into Gotham?
Why do several scenes move from daylight to night-time in the space of a few minutes?
Who left the big rope outside the 'pit' and was that not a bit risky? Come to think of it, how does Bruce Wayne get back from there with no money?
Why does the 'energy bomb' have a HUGE FUCKING DIGITAL COUNTDOWN ON IT?
How can Batman walk on thin ice, and how did he manage to do the big bat logo in petrol without anyone noticing?
So, is Bane dead then?
etc, etc.

How tedious. Not the questions, or even the plot holes they refer to, but to be a Comic Book Guy caricature who has to fuss and bitch over every little detail he didn't like or understand. IT DIDN'T ADD UP - WAH, WAH. You must be a lot of fun to see movies with. Good shout on having a mate as retentive as you are FF. At the end of the day (I fucking hate that expression but for once it's appropriate) It is just a comic book film. Maybe you're one of the people who's taking it rather too seriously?
Wait a sec - I remember now that you've studied film. In which case, ignore any of these facetious questions. You can take the film student out of the film but you can't get the film student to take the film anything but too seriously. Unless he decides it's OK!

How can Batman walk on thin ice? Maybe he lost weight while in prison? It wouldn't be the first time he dropped a few pounds.

Originally Posted by fortunesfool

It really is one of the loudest, most honking, in your face scores for years.

So....you'd agree that TDKR has a better original score than AA?

[fortunesfool]

The questions are just a sign that the film isn't holding my interest. If i'm thinking about stupid stuff like that then it doesn't say much about the film.

It's all relative I suppose. Compared to most of the dirge these days, The Dark Knight Rises is like Lawrence of Arabia. I guess I have a bug about it because they seem to be held in such high regard - also see:JJ Abrams

As you say, it was a nicely made bit of escapist nonsense.

Haven't had a good film rant/debate in ages

[morris]

I enjoyed it too, the debate I mean. And you're right, it is a stonking soundtrack. It gave my speakers a good workout.
In fact the look of the blu-ray on our big screen was stunning. Clear, rich and vivid. I guess it helped me to overlook its foibles a little.

At least we can both agree that JJ Abrams is shit.

[morris]

Originally Posted by fortunesfool

Haven't had a good film rant/debate in ages

The Matrix Vs Aliens debate will remain the stuff of legend.
It's too bad McClennan isn't around any more, to tell us nonsense like: Haneke is a brilliant but misunderstood film-maker.

I'm thankful when we go off on one like this, that we've known each other for a while. Otherwise it could be flame wars, fisticuffs and flounces. I wouldn't dare tell a noob they're like Comic Book Guy. They might cry.

[Kiba.]

Originally Posted by morris

I wouldn't dare tell a noob they're like Comic Book Guy. They might cry.

Or take it as a compliment, which would be worse.

[fortunesfool]

Originally Posted by morris

I enjoyed it too, the debate I mean. And you're right, it is a stonking soundtrack. It gave my speakers a good workout.
In fact the look of the blu-ray on our big screen was stunning. Clear, rich and vivid. I guess it helped me to overlook its foibles a little.

At least we can both agree that JJ Abrams is shit.

I have the Dark Knight Blu ray and the iMax sequences look amazing. Although, don't know if you've seen it yet but the Dredd Blu ray is the business. Sound wise at any rate, and it's a cracking film.

[morris]

I haven't. It's on high priority on my Loveshite list.. I'll get it eventually but , best not hold my breath.

[Jeffbiscuits]

Cartman as Bane http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hljP...endscreen&NR=1