Best Film Noir of All Time....

[sdaniels]

ok then... let's say I accept your opinion - what characteristics would you say a film noir should have?

here are some other peoples definitions... Brick applies to all of these...

"a movie that is marked by a mood of pessimism, fatalism, menace, and cynical characters"

"A film / movie characterized by low-key lighting, a bleak urban setting, and corrupt, cynical or desperate characters"

my personal favourite! as it incorporates both of our opinions...

"A French phrase literally meaning "black film" that developed in the early 40s; refers to a genre of mostly black-and-white films that blossomed in the post-war era in American cinema, with bleak subject matter and a somber, downbeat tone; the plot (often a quest), low-key lighting often in night scenes, camera angles (often canted or high-angle shots), the setting (the gloomy underworld of crime and corruption), iconography (guns, urban settings), characters (disillusioned, jaded), and other elements combined to present a dark atmosphere of pessimism, tension, cynicism, or oppression."

This is from http://www.filmnoirstudies.com/home.asp

[frank64]

in my opinion Brick isn't Noir, more a self reverential parody of Noir, it's way to pleased with itself, im not saying it's a bad film just not Noir. A good example of Noir that breaks the rules but is definatly Noir is Chinatown, rather than shadows it is shot in a stark brightness that hides the murky goings on, all other rules are their on show, and of course John Houston, evil personified in a white suit.

[Jonesy]

I agree, Chinatown is a good example of neo-noir.

I think what lets Brick down more than anything (and like you, frank, I think it's way too pleased with itself and up its own arse), is that it tries to put kids into an adult genre. The point of classic noir was to show how an 'ordinary Joe', who had been adhering to society's mores and expections all his life, was brought down by a shadowy underworld steeped in crime and iniquity. The Femme Fatale was always a woman of extreme sensuality, who knew exactly how to lure and trap a man for her own personal gain. Using school kids to try and create a noirish world, is pointless; they lack the experience, the depth of depravity and hedonism that characterises the characters in a noir.

There is little sense of the danger of the forbidden in Brick; it all seems too much like a kid's game. And there is certainly a lack of visual tension, which is so essential for an effective noir.

[morris]

Originally Posted by Jonesy

Using school kids to try and create a noirish world, is pointless; they lack the experience, the depth of depravity and hedonism that characterises the characters in a noir.

There is little sense of the danger of the forbidden in Brick; it all seems too much like a kid's game. And there is certainly a lack of visual tension, which is so essential for an effective noir.

Brick is one of the slowest moving films in recent times. Even with JGL's natural charisma viewing it is a supreme effort. Without him it would be virtually unwatchable.

[frank64]

been racking my brains trying to think of modern Noir films and while their are plenty of films that have elements of Noir few achieve the look and psychological elements that jonesy pointed out so well. Best I can come up with is The last seduction. Linda Fiorentino, the role of a lifetime. And The Grifters. I think they qualify, but maybe i just like amoral women

[STFUDonny]

Originally Posted by morris

Brick is one of the slowest moving films in recent times. Even with JGL's natural charisma viewing it is a supreme effort. Without him it would be virtually unwatchable.

Not only was it painfully boring but also smug and self important. Very disapointing.

I can't say that im appropriately schooled in film noir to make any relevant input, but I do love Blade Runner.

[bryanross1985]

Best Film Noir of all time...Chinatown. Hands down the ultimate film noir. It took the best of every film noir before it and crafted the perfect film as a result.

[Kierz]

Sadly an often overlooked, and naturally overshadowed by his more controversial (A Clockwork Orange) and revolutionary (2001: A Space Odyssey) masterpieces, film by Stanley Kubrick called 'The Killing' is worth a mention. It's nothing short of a piece of art, the epitome of film noir. The influence it has had upon the use of non-linear story structure in many modern classics is profound; you can clearly see where Tarantino found his inspiration from for Pulp FIction, Jackie Brown and Reservoir Dogs. The dialogue is poignant yet articulate, the cinematography well suited to the shady plans and the actual plot itself is sensational. Give it a try.

[Lingo]

personally i dont see Sin City as a film noir, i think its aiming for a film noir, but has none of the subtlety that, to me anyway, is essential in a film noir.

I think Double Indemnity just astounded me when i saw it, The Big Sleep was just that i'm afraid, i just thought it was a bit toooo subtle.

[bullshooter]

I agree with Double Indemnity.

I would also like to throw Mildred Pierce and the Big Heat into the mix.