Comic Books, Graphic Novels

[AYBGerrardo]

Actually my comments tend to be rather short, but this is something I'm passionate about. I didn't post that stuff to nitpick - it's actually very important that Watchmen doesn't have a "the" in the title, and it's common that a fan will call you on it. Do you really think I'm trying to impress anyone? Why would I choose to talk about comics, if that were the case? It's ever so predictable that someone in my position should come under criticism.
As for arrogant, my comments weren't actually directed at anyone in particular. Just blowing off steam, my friend. Well, maybe also trying to explain why it pisses me off so much when people who don't know comics even refer to them, especially in a negative light! I was expressing my opinions on the matter in a sort of me-against-the-world way that I appreciate might have rubbed you the wrong way. I was not launching an attack on anyone, but I found some of the comments in this thread and others to be inflammatory (intentionally or otherwise). Rather than saying to Jonesy, for example, that I found his comment rather trollish if it weren't for the fact that this is a movie forum, I elected to state my reasons why.
Anyway, I stated thoroughly in my post that my opinion isn't worth any more than yours. Let me reiterate that. I believe it taps into two themes of my post: equality (of people, mediums and the relations between them) and how I truly feel sickened when I come across closed-minded intellectuals who believe themselves to be superior than an entire medium and everyone who works within an industry. If they actually looked at the comic in front of them, instead of rolling their eyes away from it in voluntary ignorance, they might just find out that the world is bigger than them. Clearly, no-one here is that bad, but I'm sure you can agree with me that there is a stupidly big proportion of people who believe themselves to be the second coming of Jesus Einstein.
Can you at least see where I'm coming from? Imagine how I'd be ridiculed if I declared that I wouldn't ever read a book again because the vast majority of them are rubbish, and they're all for toddlers - oh but there's one I like - but the rest are awful.
And then you discover that I'm not even literate. You disagreed with my opinion before, but now you find out my opinion is barely valid?? How can you call me arrogant when I force myself to accept someone's opinion that I disagree with so strongly?!
All I'm doing is representing.

[Ancient One]

I totally agree. AYBs post was utter shite. " Its Comics not Graphic Novels" NO mate its Graphic Novels which by that I mean a single book usually of a collected run or story that was previously published in a comic form i.e. periodically over a series of issues.Dont forget also that the term Graphic Novel was invented by the comics media itself. As for the point that people only buy "comics" because they have a rep as being good, what the fuck is wrong with that ? Have you honestly never picked up a book or gone to see a movie because it was recommended ?
I cant actually see why you posted this. It certainly seems as if you did it just to look superior. Also I do hope that you dont think that I dont appreciate comics. I bought the first issues of titles such as Hulk X. Men, Silver Surfer, Thor and many more. I was buying comics all through the Silver Age and still buy them today (at the age of ...) I started this thread because of this love. I specifically called it Graphic Novels so that it would limit the titles to be discussed. A general comics thread would be far too unwieldy for this forum. As for the THE in Watchmen, yes you are right. Congratulations fanboy. The fact is when typing it is second nature to be gramatically correct. Hence THE. Im pretty sure that the only people likely to be offended by this minor slip are the type of picky idiot that complained Optimus Prime had flames on his paint job in the movie.
Finally if you are as passionate as you say then it would be far better if you posted positive posts and tried to encourage others to discover the comic media. The best way of which is NOT to pick up a random comic ( which is most likely to be the middle part of a story and thus uncomprehensible to them ) but to buy a fully rounded, self contained classic example of the genre. A Graphic Novel.

[Kiba.]

Originally Posted by Ancient One

I cant actually see why you posted this. It certainly seems as if you did it just to look superior. Also I do hope that you dont think that I dont appreciate comics. ... I started this thread because of this love. I specifically called it Graphic Novels so that it would limit the titles to be discussed. A general comics thread would be far too unwieldy for this forum.

Finally if you are as passionate as you say then it would be far better if you posted positive posts and tried to encourage others to discover the comic media. The best way of which is NOT to pick up a random comic ( which is most likely to be the middle part of a story and thus uncomprehensible to them ) but to buy a fully rounded, self contained classic example of the genre. A Graphic Novel.

Agreed, Ancient One. A graphic novel is an excellent place to start, and are often recommended by friends to first-time comic readers.

Gerrado, rants like the ones you've posted do little to aid discussion and appear to be designed to get a load of vitriol off your chest. Disclaimers that your opinion isn't worth any more than anyone else's doesn't lessen the negativity you're exuding.

I explained earlier in the thread that a separate Graphic Novel topic is welcome because they are different to prose novels. A separate Comic thread would also be welcome, for individual comics. We have a whole Book Forum to utilise. You seem to be labouring under the idea that a person cannot be generally dimissive of a medium yet still find something in it to enjoy. This is apparently not the case.

As Ancient said, this thread was created for positive discussion, encouragement and sharing of information; not to berate those whose knowledge you deem less worthy than your own. Please bear that in mind. Don't begin a post with "Eugh. Bad thread." It sets people's nerves on edge immediately.

[bluntmann]

can't believe there's apost about graphic novels and Garth Ennis's name hasn't been mentioned once. for me preacher is the best bit of fiction written in the last 20 years. i'm worried what they are going to do to it film wise as i've always saw it being made as 10-12 part tv series.

[chezsci]

I'm delighted there's a thread devoted to this medium. Back in the early 90's I wrote two comic series and along with two local artists attempted to sell them to Dark Horse and the like. No success. So we scraped together about two grand and self published. Sold 800 copies. Not once did we ever think of it as an inferior medium in need of apologies or defense. Or explanation. We just put it out there because we like it and it was fun.

Myself - I never read many comics except in my youth, but I wrote movie scripts and comics weren't much different. I was an original subscriber to Heavy Metal and a huge Mobius fan. When I was a kid I read the weird ones like "Magnus, Robot Hunter 3000 A.D." And "Total War" and "Sgt. Rock". In the process of working on our comic I grew to fall in love with it all over again. And just in time to read Miller when he was hitting his stride and the mighty Alan Moore. And Harvey Pekar and all the rest who were ushering in the graphic novel form.

It's sad that Mr. Moore is distancing himself from the movies generated from his work - if he had chosen to be more involved we might be treated to his talent all over again in another form. But he's fallen prey to the self indulgence and intellectual pulpit pounding that so many of his fans are fond of - no one can dare understand his work better than him or whatever fan flames the snarkiest on some forum.

It's too bad really - "League of Extraordinary Gentleman", "V for Vendetta" and likely "Watchmen" would have been or could be so much better had Moore seen the golden opportunities for what they were and quit worrying about his almighty legacy and precious integrity. Not only could he have been credited with revolutionizing the graphic novel, but he could have helped to author another paradigm shift in cinema as Lucas did with "Star Wars" and Spielberg with "Jaws". Instead he chose to sit back and rant against the Man in such great literary journals as Film Threat and Slate. Which is all well and good, but as the years go by and he keeps talking and no new work gets done. Well, let's just say - he doesn't need comic elitists to refute the importance or relevance of graphic novels; he'll do most of the damage himself.

[blahblah]

I don't read comics on account of being a grownup but I'll go and see it even though i know pretty much whats going to happen and when,I'll just hope it''s been done with a bit of style and panache.Dear old Kenny is capable of both after all.

[Projectionist]

Originally Posted by blahblah

I don't read comics on account of being a grownup but I'll go and see it even though i know pretty much whats going to happen and when,I'll just hope it''s been done with a bit of style and panache.Dear old Kenny is capable of both after all.

You can still read comics when your grown up you know

[blahblah]

You can indeed old chap and i can appreciate them as an art form but as a means for telling a story I find them clunky and simplistic compared to books,I think it's the words and pictures at the same time thing.I do have nearly all the 2000ad comics in a box somewhere though-worth a fortune one day!

[Ancient One]

I don't read comics on account of being a grownup

Stupid blinkered statement. Read any of the following
The Crow
Watchmen
The Sandman
Lost Girls
Swamp Thing (Allan Moore series)

The plots from them are as adult and quoteable as many movies.
if its because the preconception is that you don't do kids stuff then I take it you refuse to watch animated movies or films like Labyrinth,Goonies,E.T. etc which are all aimed at kids.

[Projectionist]

Read them collect them . Discuss

As i mentioned in the thor thread my mate has just done his first cover for 2000ad. Check his stuff out


http://www.garrybrownart.com/


remember sitting next to him in art class at school. The guy is going to go far